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Countering Bumping ganks in highsec

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Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14914	Posted - 2015.11.06 01:07:52 - [1] - Quote Or you just do what anyone with half a brain does, and web your freighter. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14914	Posted - 2015.11.06 01:57:12 - [2] - Quote Daret wrote: If the best solution for a problem is to quit the game. Then there is an obvious design flaw in the game. It's not a problem, and there are several better ways around bumping. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14914	Posted - 2015.11.06 02:05:58 - [3] - Quote Daret wrote: If that was the case then you wouldn't hear people constantly asking for help because they're being bumped on common anti-gank channels. Yeah it is, because the people who hang out in those channels are godawful at EVE. Doing it wrong resulting in death is working as intended. Quote: But should that be the only option for someone to get away from a bumper who could potentially keep you from leaving until maintenance? Yes. Capital ships, especially freighters, are not solo ships, nor should they be. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14914	Posted - 2015.11.06 02:16:06 - [4] - Quote Daret wrote: I'm not only talking about freighters. This would also apply to other ships that get commonly bumped, like Exhumers. Are you going to tell me Exhumers aren't solo ships? Heh, for a miner, if you get bumped, you were afk. I'm going to tell you that when you're not at your keyboard, you get what you deserve. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14914	Posted - 2015.11.06 02:46:06 - [5] - Quote Daret wrote: So you assume that ALL miners who get bumped are afk. It's not much of a leap, no. Unless they saw the Stabber hurtling at them and just said "meh", then they weren't there to do anything about it. If they weren't paying attention, they also deserve it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14914	Posted - 2015.11.06 03:01:14 - [6] - Quote Daret wrote: They're bad players so they should not get any chance to get away without outside intervention from a friend. Nope. They're bad players, and that's why they didn't get away to begin with. Is it really that hard to watch local, or web your freighter? Seriously, quit trying to put in mechanics to enable people who are actively not playing the game. Quote: Should ONE person be capable of completely preventing someone from playing the game? They aren't, unless he's dumb enough to be afk. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14914	Posted - 2015.11.06 03:14:33 - [7] - Quote Daret wrote: Your definition of 'playing the game' is clearly not the same as mine Pretty sure not being at your keyboard is not playing the game by any definition, no matter how delusional. Quote: As for watching local, we're talking highsec here, you try keeping track of the 20+ names that appear and dissapear on the local list every few minutes. I do it all the time. Quote: And again.. afk players are not affected by this measure. If someone is truly afk then you don't need to bump them to kill them And if they weren't afk they would not be getting bumped. This is a non problem. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14914	Posted - 2015.11.06 03:30:17 - [8] - Quote Daret wrote: You're literally saying every single miner and hauler is afk. That's literally what you're trying to say Wrong, again. I'm saying that any of them that get bumped were. Quote: Woop de freaking doo for you. Just because you can doesn't mean that it justifies a broken system. It's not broken, you're doing it wrong. Quote: Right. So nobody ever gets bumped while at their keyboard. Not if they were a miner. If they were a hauler, they should have had webs. Stop trying to have CCP cover your failure to play the game properly. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14914	Posted - 2015.11.06 03:43:24 - [9] - Quote Daret wrote: This is not a personal vendetta, I'm merely noticing that bumping is a chronic problem affecting highsec and it's impacting my experience in EVE in a pretty negative way. Bumping isn't just in highsec. I wouldn't expect you to know that, of course, but it bears mentioning. And it's not a problem. It's more or less impossible to perma bump anyone who didn't grievously screw up. And that's just fine. Quote: I hear of freighters being ganked daily or even hourly. I don't think that suicide ganks should be as easy to perform as they currently are. No one cares what you think. Least of all about the one thing in the game that's been nerfed even more than the Drake already. It does not matter whether it's a personal thing or not for you. It doesn't make you any less wrong. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14914	Posted - 2015.11.06 03:51:39 - [10] - Quote Daret wrote: So now your argument is: "Shut up. you're wrong." I already explained precisely why you're wrong, you just keep repeating your same nonsense about how people who aren't at their keyboards deserve to not die. And then you revealed what was obvious to begin with, that you only really want to nerf ganking. Oh, and it's not against the rules to disagree with terrible, selfish, one sided ideas like yours. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14914	Posted - 2015.11.06 03:52:41 - [11] - Quote NFain wrote: And the OP is correct in stating that if having to quit the game is your only way out of said situation, it is a broken game mechanic. Except that his basic claim is a complete, utter lie. There are more than a few ways around bumping, the first of which is actually being at your keyboard. Stop trying to excuse people not actually playing the game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14914	Posted - 2015.11.06 03:55:12 - [12] - Quote Daret wrote: I have expressly said multiple times that this change would have no effect on AFK players because this is something you have to actively choose to do. And I've told you that you don't get bumped as a miner unless you were afk. So what it really boils down to is you wanting to make freighters into solo ships. You want to remove the need for an escort of any kind. And that's unacceptable. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14914	Posted - 2015.11.06 03:59:25 - [13] - Quote Miners only get perma bumped if they are afk. Freighters only get perma bumped if they are afk or did not bother with an escort. Both of those are failure to play the game correctly. Complete, utter failure. What you want is for there to be a button that automatically gets you out of the consequences of playing the game badly. It's not happening. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14914	Posted - 2015.11.06 04:05:30 - [14] - Quote Daret wrote: Clearly you're just going to deny everything i say and claim that every single person who gets ganked clearly was AFK and clearly deserved it. They weren't all afk (just the ones who got bumped, mostly), but everyone who gets ganked deserves it. Quote: I'm giving the gankers a 30 second window from the time the pilot initiates the warp to initiate their attack before the ship gets away. So a one button way to get out of utterly failing to play correctly. Quote: This measure merely prevents the bumper from keeping the freighter stuck there for hours And of course, like I said, it really was about freighters. And no. You know what else keeps freighters from getting bumped? Playing the game right in the first place. Freighters are capital ships. They have no business being solo, ever. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14914	Posted - 2015.11.06 04:13:16 - [15] - Quote Daret wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: They weren't all afk (just the ones who got bumped, mostly), but everyone who gets ganked deserves it. Yeah I'm done arguing with you. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't make the truth go away. Everyone who gets ganked deserves it, and people dying is the single most important function in the game as far as the economy is concerned. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14924	Posted - 2015.11.06 19:42:38 - [16] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: There is indeed a reason they rely on bumping. It is an exploit to circumvent action by concord. Wrong. And it's not an aggressive act, either. Aggressive acts involve using highslot or midslot modules to inflict a negative condition onto an enemy ship, not merely pointing your engines in their direction. Quote: Why should evasion of an unwinnable encounter not be an option? It's not unwinnable, and there are numerous ways to evade it already. What you want is a perfect get-out-of-jail-free card, so you don't have to bother with any of the currently existing ways, because they require more effort than pushing one button. Basically, like how it comes to everything, carebears aren't real players, and they're lazier than hell to boot. Quote: Why do you get a risk free, protected by concord method of aggression? [/quote] It's not risk free. It has just as much risk as any faction battleship in highsec. You gutless toads just never bother doing anything about it. They can be ganked as much as anything else. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14924	Posted - 2015.11.06 21:07:01 - [17] - Quote Xequecal wrote: If the alt in the Dramiel doesn't get it into warp before it's bumped, all the friends in the world can't do ****. Wrong. It's a bit tricky, but you can get an align on the bump, for the freighter to warp to a fleet member. Seen in plenty of times, and luckily you have plenty of time to pull it off if you're being bumped. The best thing of course is simply prevention via webs(and scouting). If you do it right, the freighter is aligning for less than two seconds before it's gone. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14924	Posted - 2015.11.06 22:15:22 - [18] - Quote Daret wrote: Because ONE person being able to force someone to quit the game simply because they have no other viable option is not fair They had viable options, and if the bumping happened in the first place, it was because the target did not use them. Play the game wrong, suffer the consequences. It's perfectly fair, that's why carebears hate it so much. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14924	Posted - 2015.11.06 22:55:38 - [19] - Quote Madd Adda wrote: I'm more curious to what Kaarous's options to counter bumping are. Clearly there must be something we're doing wrong, so enlighten us. I've listed two of the best ones in the thread. Try reading it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14931	Posted - 2015.11.07 00:42:59 - [20] - Quote Daret wrote: We're talking about highsec though. where the 'fight' option gets you concorded. The gankers accept that. If you won't, your options should be curtailed. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14931	Posted - 2015.11.07 04:12:21 - [21] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: You don't need a special snowflake to circumvent the rules of engagement, you just need to follow them. They do. Bumping is not a hostile act in any way. Hostile acts involve modules targeting another ship, not where your engines are pointed. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14933	Posted - 2015.11.07 04:54:06 - [22] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: There is no reasonable way repeated bumping that is being used as tackle would not be considered aggression by anyone intelligent. Anyone intelligent would be able to understand the simple criteria for an aggressive act in EVE Online, which bumping does not fit. Quote: which is why it should be changed to require some active module on your ship to get that affect, so there can be no question. It does need an active module, numbskull. A MWD. And the system still cannot tell the difference between an intentional bump and an accidental one. Nevermind that aggression strictly requires the use of an offensive module against an enemy player, which happens in neither of those interactions. Not only are you asking the impossible, you are asking the absurd. And you're doing it because you think billion isk freighters should be completely safe in highsec. Pathetic doesn't even begin to describe it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14933	Posted - 2015.11.07 05:21:35 - [23] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: no reasonable person could watch bumping being used as tackle and not recognize that as aggression. Except, you know. Concord. Along with a bunch of other players, but nice job with the intellectual dishonesty of assuming that only your side is "reasonable". Quote: Please point to the post where I stated freighters should be completely safe in High Sec. You even said in this very thread that content creators who want to shoot freighters should be forced to do so only with wardecs (which you know don't work), kill rights (which you know freighter pilots don't have) or suspect flagging/duels, (which freighter pilots don't do). Ergo, you want freighters to be completely safe in highsec. Don't even bother trying to weasel your way out of it, we all already know what you are. Quote: I have stated that aggressive acts should follow the rules of aggression And bumping is not an aggressive act, and so is not subject to them. Quote: but whatever. You are just a troll. And the carebear projection, right on queue. You people are so predictable. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14936	Posted - 2015.11.07 06:33:46 - [24] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Tackle is an aggressive act. Bumping may not be an aggressive act, but using it as tackle is. Wrong. It's still just bumping. Bumping is a completely neutral act. Mike Voidstar wrote: If it's not aggression, what's the problem with disabling the affect it has? It doesn't have one. Absolutely nothing is preventing your warp engines from engaging. There is no problem here besides you trying to justify your ridiculous risk aversion. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14936	Posted - 2015.11.07 06:36:00 - [25] - Quote Daret wrote: I'm just once again saying that there should be something that the freighter pilot can do on his own to eventually get away. "on his own" Never. Freighters are capitals, and they are above all not solo ships. If you take a freighter out by itself, you deserve to die. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14936	Posted - 2015.11.07 07:19:54 - [26] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: If there is no effect, then what's the problem with disabling what it does? Your appalling grammar aside, it does no disabling. A freighter's warp engines are still functional if they are bumped. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14940	Posted - 2015.11.07 08:59:32 - [27] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: So what's the problem with making it so that you don't spin a ship around when you bump them? Why would it need to be changed to begin with? Quote: I mean, you are claiming it has no effect You lie. (like you always do. You're incapable of anything else) What I'm claiming is that, contrary to what you say, it is not warp disruption. And it's not. Warp disruption is a very specific in game effect. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14955	Posted - 2015.11.09 05:02:51 - [28] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Tackle should be intentional. If it's so frelling important that there be a concord free way to tackle, then add a module to do that. Why bother, when there isn't any problem to begin with? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14956	Posted - 2015.11.09 05:55:40 - [29] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Tackle is aggression. Bumping should not be useable as tackle Bumping is not usable as tackle. It does not disable warp engines as tackle does. Quote: This is most notably a problem in high sec It's not a problem at all. Quote: Just because it's not a problem for you does not mean it's not a problem. It's not a problem that freighters die. It's not a problem that they need escorts. It's not a problem that there are consequences for being afk. It would only be a problem to the kind of entitled, selfish carebear who thinks they should be able to fly a capital ship solo and afk. And something like that isn't a real problem, because it exists only in the minds of people who don't belong in this game anyway. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14956	Posted - 2015.11.09 05:56:36 - [30] - Quote Repeat your lie all you want Mike. Bumping is not tackle. That is a fact, a fact that you can right now in the game and see with your own eyes, if your entitlement will let you. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14958	Posted - 2015.11.09 07:46:34 - [31] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: When you use bumping to keep a ship from going into warp, you are doing something that is equivalent to using a scrambler, disruptor, etc... No, you very literally are not. Their warp engines are not being effected at all. Only their alignment. They are two very different things, and you're trying to conflate them because your entire nonsense argument depends on it. But the fact of the matter is that they are not the same at all. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14959	Posted - 2015.11.09 08:25:41 - [32] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Well if it's not tackle, then we can get rid of it and nothing will change right? You'd need to show there being some kind of problem first, to justify recoding the base physics engine. Change has to be justified, and this certainly is not. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14959	Posted - 2015.11.09 08:39:29 - [33] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: It's being used as tackle. Tackle is aggression. And this isn't tackle. Tackle disrupts their warp engines. That's why you keep arguing this even though you know it's obvious to everyone who looks that you're wrong. Because your whole premise is to try and bring in Concord: "Tackle = Concord summoned" "Bumping = Tackle" So "Bumping should = Concord summoned". But your second point is flagrantly untrue. Bumping /= Tackle in reality. Doesn't matter to you though, in your quest to justify a nerf you'll say anything. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14959	Posted - 2015.11.09 08:50:40 - [34] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Kaarous, stop trolling. I'm not. And tackle is a synonym for warp disruption. Quote: And for the everloving glory of god, if it's that xaxtdamned important to kill things despite the rules governing aggression in that area, then just put in a mod to do it outright instead of being dishonest about it. Why would they go to the trouble? There isn't anything wrong with the existing situation. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14959	Posted - 2015.11.09 09:12:03 - [35] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Synonym for warp disruption specifically? Really? Yes. And infinipoints and bubbles also warp disrupt/scram your ship. Bumping does not. In fact, I can't seem to find where it inflicts a debuff of any kind for Concord to respond to. It's almost like they exclusively respond to offensive module activation, and bumping doesn't qualify. Quote: From a balance perspective, it's not right because unprovoked aggression is supposed to have strict consequences in highsec. And of course, here is what you really want. Your supposed claim of being alright with a module that does the same was just a mask. What you really want is a big, fat nerf, because you don't think highsec is safe enough already. Quote: I am aware that your own belief is that highsec should just be removed all together Considering you just made that up, it really wouldn't surprise me if you were aware of anything else imaginary either. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14959	Posted - 2015.11.09 09:35:35 - [36] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Warp Disruption is a specific effect. Warp Scrambling is also a specific effect, distinct from disruption. Actually, they both fall under the category of warp disruption. Quote: You are just trying to lump them all together on an arbitrary definition that excludes using bumping I'm not trying to do anything, they are all in the same category, the warp disruption effect, the one that stops your warp engines from activating. They all have the same mechanical effect, although to varying degrees. Quote: There is no supposed claim. I said it, I meant it. If you could convince me that a method of aggression that is not just allowed by concord but actively defended by it was balanced, I'd go along with it. It won't be an easy sell however. I don't believe you. There is no circumstance in which I would consider you to be arguing in good faith. None whatsoever. Quote: You have said many times that concord is an abomination and should be removed from the game. What I've said is the binary, heavy handed, anti sandbox mechanic that Concord presently is should not exist and should never have existed. That's quite different. But mischaracterizations and outright lies are your M.O., as you've long since proven. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14963	Posted - 2015.11.09 10:26:57 - [37] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Kaarous, I guess that's it then. You really are ust a troll. You keep saying that, but it's pure projection. You're the one incessantly spinning strawman arguments and misrepresenting game mechanics. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14964	Posted - 2015.11.09 11:37:51 - [38] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: More consistent in that unprovoked aggression follows the same rules regardless of how you do it. It already does. Bumping is not aggression. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14977	Posted - 2015.11.11 21:41:43 - [39] - Quote Valacus wrote: What do they risk, an insured catalyst? He doesn't even know that you don't get insurance payouts for ganking. Here's a tip for all you bears out there. If you don't know the rules of the game you're playing, you don't get to make suggestions of any kind. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14980	Posted - 2015.11.13 00:17:46 - [40] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: You say freighter pilots always run to CCP looking for handouts? Yes. Have a read through the hundred plus pages of the freighter rebalance thread if you don't believe me. Their tears were delicious, most of them really were fool enough to think they would get enough of a net buff that ganking would stop being a thing. They really did think that fittings would come at zero loss to them. The best part is that, were it not for mynnna, the Goon CSM, (from whom CCP straight up copied the idea to give them lowslots) the changes would have been a straight up nerf to freighters across the board. Seriously, every freighter pilot should contract mynnna an exotic dancer on the anniversary of that thread, that's how much he saved their whiny asses. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14983	Posted - 2015.11.13 22:24:04 - [41] - Quote BABARR wrote: You don't care about the game, you just want your own confortble zone, even if you have to say bullshit on forum to keep it. Carebears always project. I have yet to find one this rule doesn't apply to. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14984	Posted - 2015.11.13 22:55:48 - [42] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Do you even understand what type of game you are playing? No, they don't. None of them do. That's basically the whole point of all of this. They want to change the game to be what they want, rather than just admit that they're playing the wrong game. They don't want to play EVE Online, none of them do. They want to play Farmville in Space. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14993	Posted - 2015.11.14 13:23:05 - [43] - Quote BABARR wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: BABARR wrote: You don't care about the game, you just want your own confortble zone, even if you have to say bullshit on forum to keep it. Carebears always project. I have yet to find one this rule doesn't apply to. Trust me, i don't like carebear too, but atm suicide ganker state of minde is REALLY close to carebear. I really don't see how. One actually plays the game, the other ambles around afk and expects to be safe. One understands the nature of EVE and embraces it, the other rails against it and asks CCP to change the game to suit them. One wants to play EVE Online, the other wants Farmville in space. They could not be more different, and it's foolishness to try and equate the two. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14993	Posted - 2015.11.14 13:27:44 - [44] - Quote BABARR wrote: It's maybe YOU you don't want to adapt. No, it's still the carebears. We've been the only ones who've had to do any "adapting" at all. Their gameplay has stayed the same, and they've howled and cried for a decade to keep it that way. (see the MTU changes, fastest hotfix in the game's history thanks to carebear tears. Nevermind the freighter rebalance, which was planned as a hefty nerf until they flooded the forums with tears) And that's just it, after all. The carebear side doesn't want to adapt, and they've forced everyone else to adapt for the entire history of the game, because they think they have the right to play the game wrong. Never once have they actually been nerfed. It's long past time to tell them to suck it up. Play the game right, or get used to dying. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14993	Posted - 2015.11.14 13:30:50 - [45] - Quote BABARR wrote: Crying like little girl when suggesting a change, don't want to be put out his own "confortable zone", ect. Why should we be nerfed yet again because the same people can't figure out that being afk is a bad idea? Why should highsec be made even more safe? Hell, you want to talk about "comfortable zone", while you suggest things to help people who are actively not playing the game? Why is their "comfortable zone" out of bounds for the whole history of the game? Why don't they get to suck it up for just once in the last decade? I know carebears think they're special snowflakes, but you cannot possibly tell me you are this much of a hypocrite. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15015	Posted - 2015.11.14 23:18:05 - [46] - Quote BABARR wrote: The problem actually is : you kill EMPTY freighter. So you think the problem is that we still have any player freedom left. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15015	Posted - 2015.11.14 23:22:29 - [47] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: But the rules that high sec are supposed to be operating under should not result in self defense causing sec standing loss and Concordokken of your ship(s). They absolutely should, when you would be "defending" yourself against something that is explicitly not an attack. If you want to kill someone who isn't flagged, then gank him, just like everybody else does. If you refuse to use all the tools then your options are limited, and that's working as intended. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15021	Posted - 2015.11.15 08:24:40 - [48] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Thus my counter proposal in the thread to make bumping, or some other form of tackle, an active mod that flags the user as suspect. "Gais, the basic physics of the game should be changed because escorting a capital ship is too much work!" Quote: Defending yourself from aggression should not result in Concord. Bumping is never aggression. If you want the Mach dead, grow a pair and gank it(or as you suggested gankers should do to freighters, trick them into suspect flagging, lol). Stop trying to have the mechanics changed to justify your obscene risk aversion, and just play the game correctly for once. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15024	Posted - 2015.11.16 03:36:58 - [49] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: baltec1 wrote: If you wont gank the mach then gank the ganking ships, they are all profitable to gank. Again, self defense should not result in Concord or sec status loss. It's not self defense, because there is no attack happening. Once again, if you want to kill the Machariel, then grow a pair and gank it. If you refuse to use all the tools at your disposal, your options are and should be limited as a result. Play the game correctly for once. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15026	Posted - 2015.11.16 10:01:41 - [50] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: So... CCP agreed that the ganking of freighters was not balanced, and made changes. Gankers have found workarounds to those changes, resulting in even more ganks.... and you don't see where that would require a rebalance yet again? But what really happened is that carebears like you wanted ganking to disappear with those changes. But since it didn't, you're right here crying for more nerfs because you just can't be asked to play the game properly. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15035	Posted - 2015.11.16 22:32:36 - [51] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: If you cannot warp because someone is intentionally bumping you repeatedly so that they can form up a gank squad, then you are under attack No, you are not "under attack" in any way. And you can still warp, you just can't align. Quote: All your point about freighters being made worse by changes means is that our current devs were hired from the portion of the community that worships the more toxic gameplay and their changes were not in the best interest of the target audience. "Dev statements and actions only matter when they agree with me, or else they're toxic." You are such a goddamned hypocrite. I almost can't believe it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15035	Posted - 2015.11.17 00:35:08 - [52] - Quote Vic, that's why giving freighters fittings was a silly idea and a pipe dream to begin with. The carebears wanted to be immune to ganking. Since ganking still happens, they declare the fittings a failure. But they were irrelevant to begin with. There is no optimum fitting because fitting just doesn't belong on freighters, even now. The primary successful defense mechanism for freighters, which are by definition prey animals, is to just not be where the predators are. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15035	Posted - 2015.11.17 00:53:16 - [53] - Quote Vic Jefferson wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Vic, that's why giving freighters fittings was a silly idea and a pipe dream to begin with. The carebears wanted to be immune to ganking. Since ganking still happens, they declare the fittings a failure. But they were irrelevant to begin with. There is no optimum fitting because fitting just doesn't belong on freighters, even now. The primary successful defense mechanism for freighters, which are by definition prey animals, is to just not be where the predators are. Oh don't get me wrong. I agree with you 100%. it is good that reckless capitals and unprepared players are penalized. I just wish this would be true outside of Hi Sec. Well, the root of that problem is local chat, and that's for another thread if you ask me. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15037	Posted - 2015.11.17 02:36:01 - [54] - Quote Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote: Yes. If you are being bumped for over 10 minutes it's just harassment. Wrong in literally every way. Quote: The only real solution I see is to not allow people with severely low security status into the place that is supposed to be high security. It comes as no surprise that someone like you wants to correct this not-problem by functionally banning PvP in highsec. The rest of your post is a wildly off topic rant, and was reported as such. Have a nice day. Never post again. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15044	Posted - 2015.11.17 09:46:02 - [55] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I suppose it's easier than giving reasons why aggression in high sec should not be criminally flagged It should and it is. But bumping is not aggression in any way. Quote: The whole reason this thread even exists is because some folks believe ganking to be out of hand "Some folks" are wrong. And you're wrong whether or not you make distasteful and inappropriate references trying to equate video game actions to real life tragedies(or whether you try to make apologies for such despicable things). If you do, you are a total piece of dog ****, however. But you're all equally wrong. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15054	Posted - 2015.11.17 22:35:24 - [56] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: There is an issue There is no issue. You are conjuring this out of thin air. Web your freighter. You have no right, none at all, to be solo in a freighter. The end. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15060	Posted - 2015.11.17 22:48:28 - [57] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: By the way, you are implicitly agreeing to everything Kaarous Aldurald has written about how those letting themselves get bumped then ganked are bad at playing the game. They always do, even if they don't realize it. They think they have a right to play the game wrong and not suffer any consequences for it. And because they are selfish and entitled, they think the game should change around their misplaced expectations. And because they're hypocrites, they think it's okay to de facto delete other playstyles while screaming about how their "playstyle" of being a lazy useless excuse for a player should be protected from all change. They literally think playing the game wrong should be a protected playstyle, because they're special. And because they always project, everything they claim about ganking "risk averse, low skill, too much reward" actually applies solely to them. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15066	Posted - 2015.11.18 00:04:15 - [58] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: The reasoning for likening it to other aggressive acts is sound. No, it's not, it's self serving nonsense. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15067	Posted - 2015.11.18 00:09:58 - [59] - Quote admiral root wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: The reasoning for likening it to other aggressive acts is sound. No, it's not, it's self serving nonsense. Even if it were true (which it isn't), I've provided him with four options that do not require going suspect or criminal that will save a ship from being bumped, or that will get it out of trouble once it is bumped. Of course, facts are a bit inconvenient when you're trying to whine for one more nerf. Which is of course what this is about. Mike there thinks that people have a right to be afk in a billion isk ship and never worry about dying. Meanwhile, somehow Red Frog, who I use myself(and whom I have failed to infiltrate not once but twice now), are completing the vast, vast majority of their deliveries. It's almost like there isn't a game balance issue here, it's almost like some people are just plain doing it wrong. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15067	Posted - 2015.11.18 04:23:25 - [60] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Granting a criminal flags isn't a nerf for taking part in a gank. It's an invitation to even more PvP. No it's not. Don't even lie, you're already on record here several times as saying that this isn't even really about bumping, you just want ganking nerfed. A criminal or suspect flag will never be applied to anyone based on what direction their engines are pointed. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15071	Posted - 2015.11.18 05:25:03 - [61] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: You only need to step outside your self perceived delusion that ganking makes you a bad person to realize that you don't need further mechanics that will ultimately only serve to make bad game play safer. He wants to make bad gameplay safer. Anything else he says is a lie and a smokescreen. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15075	Posted - 2015.11.18 05:48:59 - [62] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Regardless of how minor the penalty, self defense from unprovoked aggression should not result in penalties. It doesn't. Bumping is not aggression. Knock off your lying already. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15080	Posted - 2015.11.18 09:34:24 - [63] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: that's just being intentionally obtuse Carebears always project. It's not being obtuse at all, it's literally the reality of the game. But because reality intrudes on your entitlement, you think that if you wish hard enough it will stop being the truth. You're the one being obtuse. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15087	Posted - 2015.11.18 12:39:34 - [64] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Nerfing freighter bumping wouldn't nerf HS (just one more time) it would nerf the ability of freighter gankers to play by ping in lieu of being logged in and ready to go. Yeah, why should the people you don't like have a reason to login at all? This is so hypocritical I almost can't believe it, save that it comes from you. I mean, seriously, this is what carebears want. They literally don't want you to have any fun with this game. Everybody should just be forced to grind until they quit from boredom, not be able to get some real content once in a while. Quote: The point isn't that there are available counters That's actually the only point. So long as you can web a freighter into warp in less than 2 seconds, bumping should never be touched. You do not get to give freighters a huge safety buff. And you especially don't get to be a disingenuous, dishonest shill who tries to argue against "ping" gameplay as being afk(which it's not, I'm surprised you didn't sprain yourself from reaching that hard), then suggesting something that dramatically buffs the ability of every freighter to be afk. As always, you are the biggest hypocrite in the thread. Quote: I don't want ganking nerfed You lie. Your post history of full of requests to nerf ganking and emergent gameplay. You post little else, in fact. Quote: - I want the afk / play by ping garbage that freighter bumping promotes/allows to be removed as an option. And what the truth behind this smokescreen actually is is that you want afk play for freighers to be made completely without consequence. Goddamned pathetic. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15087	Posted - 2015.11.18 12:42:44 - [65] - Quote I mean, seriously, that is the single stupidest thing I have ever read on these forums, and that includes the tripe that Infinity Ziona or Dinsdale used to post. "Gankers should not be able to just log in and kill somebody, but freighters totally have the right to be afk without consequence." Nevermind that the heavy handed criminal flag penalties are exactly why gankers behave like that. Nope, it can't possibly be yet another repercussion of the overbearing nerfs to real gameplay, we must just need to dramatically buff the safety of afk people in highsec yet again. I honestly can't believe you actually copped to that level of hypocrisy. Nothing you say will ever be taken seriously again, although it's not like you had much credibility to begin with. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15088	Posted - 2015.11.18 12:54:57 - [66] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: I don't hate folks that suicide gank. Again, you lie. Your post history tells a very different story. Pretty sure you lie awake at night trying to think of ways to justify nerfing PvP in highsec. Quote: I just don't like mechanics that promote play by ping. That'd be Crimewatch itself. Unless you're willing to just give up Concord, that's not going away. Quote: Here's my question: If the mach bumping isn't for holding a freighter while guys are pinged - why is it done? You've (falsely) claimed several times about being a prolific ganker, so why don't you answer that question yourself? I already know you don't know the correct answer anyway, so you might as well just admit it. Quote: I already know it's to allow play by ping. What you don't know could fill a Charon. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15092	Posted - 2015.11.18 12:58:03 - [67] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: I never said freighters should be allowed to auto pilot or be AFK. Yes, you did, and have done so repeatedly. You're literally here arguing for the imaginary right of people to play the game wrong. It's pretty much all you ever post. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15092	Posted - 2015.11.18 13:20:29 - [68] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Please show me an accurate post where I claimed a freighter should be allowed to auto pilot or play afk. Heck, just go through this thread. Whether you want to admit it or not, asking for ganking to be nerfed in any way buffs afk hauling and mining. Which is what you want, you just won't admit it without slipping up like you did on the previous page. Your smokescreen isn't fooling anyone, hence why you're in full blown defensive mode. Quote: I don't like afk as much as the next guy. Once again, you lie. You are, and have been repeatedly in the past, arguing to massively buff afk gameplay in highsec. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15093	Posted - 2015.11.18 14:11:39 - [69] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: ping play is pretty much the same as sitting on a titan waiting for the cyno bait to light a cyno "ping play" is what you get when you have anti fun "time out" mechanics, as EVE has so many of. Since this isn't a sporting event and there's no trophy on the line, people are bound to try and find ways to have fun in spite of anti fun mechanics. When they slapped us with jump fatigue, people turned to wormholes. And then, just like with highsec, CCP finds themselves once again nerfing fun wherever it's found, in service to some grand concept vision in which they know better than us what fun is. Although the vision is more than likely the excuse given for changes made due to tears. There's absolutely nothing wrong with marginalizing mechanics that are not fun. It is not only to be expected, but celebrated, and mechanics that players are consistently having to work around should be suspended and re-evaluated. That's what most people call holistic game design. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15095	Posted - 2015.11.18 15:44:15 - [70] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Do it right or don't do it at all If only you could manage to apply this rationale to freighter pilots. But alas, gotta defend that narrative to be afk. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15104	Posted - 2015.11.18 23:56:11 - [71] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: I mean, seriously, that is the single stupidest thing I have ever read on these forums, and that includes the tripe that Infinity Ziona or Dinsdale used to post. That is a high bar...errr low bar....whatever. Oh, it's a very high bar. You need to be running full speed like a bull in a china shop to clear that one. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15106	Posted - 2015.11.19 11:37:42 - [72] - Quote I like the snide insinuation by the carebear that the only freighters that should ever die are the ones headed out of highsec. Meaning exactly zero of them, since people use jump freighters for that. Does he think his bullshit is fooling anyone here? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15108	Posted - 2015.11.19 13:11:35 - [73] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: jump freighters die quite often from null entities so i dont know where you get that from What they don't get though, is picked off at gatecamps by gankers. Their window of vulnerability is much, much smaller than freighters. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15109	Posted - 2015.11.19 13:25:46 - [74] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: Zimmer Jones wrote: Come to think of it, wouldn't it be great if freighter pilots started to auto destruct and eject to save their SP? Wouldn't it be great if gankers lost SP when concord ganked them? Unlike haulers(and every PvE playstyle for that matter), gankers already have numerous consequences attached to their playstyle. In fact they're pretty much the only playstyle that has mechanical consequences anymore, now that faction standings don't mean anything. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15110	Posted - 2015.11.19 13:30:20 - [75] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: If you have to bump to PvP, your doing it wrong. I see someone's never been involved in capital ship combat. It's you who is doing it wrong. Arguing from a position of ignorance is always doing it wrong. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15114	Posted - 2015.11.19 13:37:22 - [76] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: By all means, do share the consequences of ganking defenseless freighters outside of wardecs with super cheap destroyers in large groups, in a world where your negative 10 sec status doesn't prevent you from docking in hi-sec or hiding behind a POS until the opportune moment arrives to warp to your broskies for 20 seconds of risk free pvp. Why would I bother? Your head is so deep up the carebear narrative that you'll never see the light. If you called us not-sees, I'd have a bingo just on this one post. I mean, seriously, if you cried more in just that one paragraph, you'd give the Morton company a run for their money. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15114	Posted - 2015.11.19 13:41:16 - [77] - Quote "Waah, negative sec status pilots are still allowed to dock! The game is so unfair!" "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15118	Posted - 2015.11.19 15:37:26 - [78] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: I've simply asked you to mention said consequences to back up your bold claims It's not a bold claim. That's like you telling me that suggesting the sky is blue is a bold claim. Ganking is the only playstyle that has mechanical consequences attached to it. That is self evident to all but the most deluded, which with my earlier statement, I lumped you into that category. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15118	Posted - 2015.11.19 15:38:38 - [79] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: If you want highsec to be safe, then you should come out and just argue for that honestly. If you hadn't noticed, he is literally incapable of honesty. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15134	Posted - 2015.11.19 21:36:54 - [80] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Vic Jefferson wrote: I am sorry, but the claim that there are consequences, at least beyond social consequences, to ganking is pure and unadulterated horsefeathers. I've said it before, I'll say it again: Drop a pilot's sec status <-5.0. Undock in a ship and attempt to perform a task while undocked in HiSec that isn't suicide ganking. Tell me what you learn. The typical way they answer this is "because alts". But the mere fact that people have to use an alt to get around negative sec status is proof that there are consequences and penalties that require mitigation. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15134	Posted - 2015.11.19 21:40:34 - [81] - Quote Vic Jefferson wrote: There are no relevant or applicable functional consequences for being -10 in Hi Sec. That is why people see it as unfair. It's perfectly relevant. Gankers have to abandon pretty much every other aspect of gameplay. The fact that people are willing to make that choice hardly reflects against the actual consequences. Carebears just can't see past their own noses and their own selfishness. If anything, since it's functionally impossible to do anything except gank once your sec status his a certain level, the reality is that it's unfair against gankers. But it damn sure isn't unfair that their playstyle still exists, which is what the carebears are really crying about. They want "consequences" that make ganking completely untenable and delete it as a playstyle. That's why they dishonestly claim that the current consequences from ganking are insufficient. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15135	Posted - 2015.11.19 22:32:05 - [82] - Quote Vic Jefferson wrote: These numbers may be out of date, but what they mean has not changed: High Sec: 1212 systems Low Sec: 695 systems Null Sec: 3294 systems W-Space: 2498 systems So by cutting out conditional access to 15.7% of systems, you are cutting off every other aspect of gameplay? You know full well I meant highsec. Quote: Given how easy it is to circumvent what -10 does to you, it just seems frivolous to list it as an actual consequence. As I mentioned before. If there weren't consequences for it, more people than a handful would gank with their mains. But that really isn't the case, because negative sec status puts down any other gameplay in highsec. You can't haul, mine, mission, or do much of anything besides station trade. That is an actual, measurable consequence. Just because people take steps to mitigate it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Rather the opposite. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15135	Posted - 2015.11.19 22:39:17 - [83] - Quote Oh, and as for risk vs reward. Risk vs reward does not apply to ANY PvP interaction. At all. CCP has it's own built in measure for that, the loot fairy. That's why what other players drop is not taken into account with risk vs reward, because in both the risk and the potential reward in any PvP interaction, the buck stops with the players involved. There is no aspect of game balance involved in someone carrying PLEX in a shuttle. That's a people problem, not a game balance problem. Risk vs reward is exclusively oriented around activities that generate assets into the game world. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15138	Posted - 2015.11.20 05:50:15 - [84] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: But it damn sure isn't unfair that their playstyle still exists, which is what the carebears are really crying about. They want "consequences" that make ganking completely untenable and delete it as a playstyle. That's why they dishonestly claim that the current consequences from ganking are insufficient. This. Extreme amounts of this. Rather than face the possibility they're bad at EVE, they scream that the source of any challenge, in this case the gankers, simply be removed from the game. Hell, trucknuts up there outright admitted it. He doesn't think gankers should be able to DOCK. "Well, we keep nerfing them and they're still here, so now we should start taking away basic parts of gameplay, maybe then they'll finally go away." "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15138	Posted - 2015.11.20 06:29:18 - [85] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: For some the carebear has no rights at all. Because he does not play the gankbear game he is a nonperson. Carebears are still people, but they're certainly not players. There is a distinction to be made between PvE players are carebears, as well. PvE players actually play the game as it is, rather than *** and moan about how it's not exactly how they want it. Carebears are the people who don't want to actually play EVE, they want to play their ideal vision of EVE wherein all the things that make EVE a unique and interesting game are gone for the sake of more mindless grinding. One of them are actually players, and the other are not. They're just... there. Like destructible terrain. They don't contribute anything, they're fit for nothing more than to be destroyed for the amusement of the player. Quote: There is zero thought of balance Demonstrated once again, carebears always project. It is you who gives no thought to game balance, you even said earlier than the only freighters that should die at all are those headed for nullsec. For myself, I've put more thought and suggestions towards game balance than you ever will, you or any twenty carebears. Quote: Even better when they can then turn around and claim it's the victim who is unbalanced and needs help. People who death threats and vile sexual insults after losing at a video game are unbalanced, mentally ill, and a bunch of others things besides. The fact that you defend such obvious violations of the EULA of this game is yet more example that you simply don't belong here. Quote: How do we know? They say so themselves. They want to attack the weak and defenseless. They joke about collecting tears, even pass out a link to a mocking questionnaire so as to bask in their dickery as much as possible.. They won't go to areas of space where people look for fights, they want to stay in high sec and harass people who would rather not play that way, and it's funny because to these guys their prey are worth less than they are. And here we have a completely typical "Non consensual PvP is EEEEEEVIL!" rant. Remember the part where I said you don't belong here? That applies double now. Quote:** No, what is really being asked for in this case is that the rules high sec is supposed to work under actually do so. Another of your lies. What you are asking is that the rules of highsec be wildly changed to accommodate you and your selfishness, for your benefit. Trying to spew this tripe and claim you have the game's best interests in mind is a goddamned joke. It would be funny if it weren't disgusting. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15143	Posted - 2015.11.20 07:17:52 - [86] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: All they want is for the rules to work as described. "they". You mean you, and a small handful of other butthurt carebears. And the rules do work as described. Bumping is not an offensive action, in literally any way. No matter how much you try and stretch the definition of "aggression", it does not apply on a very fundamental level. Quote: They aren't destructible terrain or any other fantasy you use to justify yourself. Heh, that one hit home. They most certainly are. That's what they're relegated to if they're not going to be players, anyway. The really odd thing is that it's rather easy to make the choice to be a real player, and it isn't even that much of an attitude adjustment either. Quote: It's one of life's truths that just because you can do a thing does not mean you should. Now comes the part where I wonder out loud how long it will take to sink in that this is a flipping video game. Quote: Your only thought of balance is how to make it easier to make more people more miserable. You have said as much repeatedly in your rants about carebears and the abomination of concord Now you just aren't even pretending like you're listening. Fortunately, my own suggestions and ideas on the matter are long since on record. [/quote] >>"You act like you don't personally go out of your way to push buttons and provoke people into making those kinds of threats. " [/quote] I don't. According to you lot however, having a few laughs on my part constitutes enough provocation to justify spewing vile sexual insults and real life threats. The real problem here of course is that carebears have a nasty combination of narcissism and over sensitivity. It's why they lash out when they lose, because they take a personal affront from losing at a video game. Quote: I don't condone the threats I don't believe you. At all. You're backpedalling to save face. Oh, and I'll stop calling you a liar when you finally stop lying. At least the other scumbag from earlier admits that he just wants ganking dead and gone. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15143	Posted - 2015.11.20 07:21:59 - [87] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: The idea that self defense not subject someone to penalties and concord isn't radical. Oh, and this. It would not be self defense. Self defense is presently legal in highsec, but you do have to have an actual aggressive act made against your ship, not just a microwarp drive. If you want the Mach dead, grow a pair, play the game right for once, and gank him. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15143	Posted - 2015.11.20 07:37:00 - [88] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I know it's difficult to muster enough empathy to comprehend other players might wish for the rules to work as advertised I know it's difficult to muster up some intellectual honesty, but it's time to admit that the rules already do work as advertised. Nowhere in this whole game, the wiki, or any CCP statement is it advertised that how you activate your prop mod could ever be considered an aggressive act. Not in highsec, not anywhere. Quote: but those players have avoided wars, criminal acts and the violence that would make kill rights available for them, and taken longer routes to stay in high sec so as to retain their claim on concord protection.. So they dropped to an NPC corp, and you think that tiny bit of effort should guarantee them safety when flying a billion isk killmail. The only word for that is lol. Quote: They have every reason to expect that concord respond when they suddenly can't go anywhere because someone is 'attacking' them (yes, yes, technicalities, they are stupid, yada yada). They have no reason to expect it all, bar their entitlement. Stop trying to project your entitlement onto the rules and their intent. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15143	Posted - 2015.11.20 07:53:07 - [89] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: This whole butthurt post Carebears always project. Quote: Nah, you dont "play eve" Not much on this guy, anyway. I wonder when you'll realize that when I said that most gankers use alts, I meant myself too. Although I do play way less now that awoxing isn't a thing. But anyway, thanks for making this all about me. At any point did you intend to address the topic? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15155	Posted - 2015.11.20 09:03:28 - [90] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Guess what? Chicken butt. Or wait, was it "Just one more nerf" perhaps? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15158	Posted - 2015.11.20 10:18:29 - [91] - Quote And of course, ears so deaf that Black Pedro may as well have been talking to a stone. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15158	Posted - 2015.11.20 10:25:31 - [92] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: And of course, ears so deaf that Black Pedro may as well have been talking to a stone. That's offensive to all us stoners. Get it? HuUurRrR! Come now, some of the best listeners I've ever met have been high as kites. Seriously though, I really will never understand why the anniversary of such things as the birth of old Adolf and the Columbine massacre was chosen to be "international weed day." "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15160	Posted - 2015.11.20 14:03:05 - [93] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: destroying or taking what amounts to weeks of his efforts. This is you people's problem. It's not "weeks of his efforts". It's pixels, in a game about making and losing pixels. Do you scream and make death threats when you finish a game of RISK, just because it took a few hours for you to get the Kamchatka chokepoint? Once again we come to the point where carebears can't seem to realize that this is a game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15166	Posted - 2015.11.20 15:28:45 - [94] - Quote For someone who says he doesn't condone this particular vile behavior, he sure is going to great lengths to make excuses for it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15191	Posted - 2015.11.21 12:34:44 - [95] - Quote I like how he's not even bothering to hide the fact that he fully condones and supports death threats and vile sexual or racial insults against gankers, because he thinks we deserve it. He literally thinks the EULA should only apply in one direction. English fails me to describe how bad of a person you are, Mike. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15192	Posted - 2015.11.21 14:45:17 - [96] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: In context of internet babble it's just blowing off steam. No, it's very literally violating the game's EULA. And you sit here and make excuses and justifications for it, over and over. So if you say you don't condone it, I don't believe a word of it, because judging from your actions you not only condone it but completely approve of it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15198	Posted - 2015.11.21 23:22:28 - [97] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: I know this sounds repetitive, but holy **** Mike, you just seem downright determined to ignore this point. I have yet to see you even acknowledge it. In fact, you have steadfastly denied you are advocating for incompetent play when it is quite clear that is a significant part of the problem. Not only that, but all the while still towing the line, not deviating an inch from the narrative. Gankers are evil, the existence of non consensual PvP at all = bullying, and that we deserve it when they scream death threats and vile insults because we "provoke" them by winning at a video game. He is a stock model carebear. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15201	Posted - 2015.11.22 03:22:50 - [98] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Quote: More Bravo Sierra, now anyone passing buy can shoot a ship that has minimal tank and is basically fit for speed and agility. Because that's what's supposed to happen in high sec when you attack other people outside of having kill tights, wardec, or them committing a criminal act against you. Bumping is not an attack. It's use of your propulsion mod, and that is never an attack under literally any circumstances. Stop trying to peddle the lie that bumping is an aggressive act. It is not, by definition. Stop lying. And stop trying to use lies to buff afk gameplay. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15207	Posted - 2015.11.22 08:06:39 - [99] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: Note that your narrative works both ways. It doesn't work both ways, because only one of the two sides of this argument is correct. And it's not Mike's side, that's for damn sure. The side that spends page after page justifying and excusing obvious violations of the EULA will never be in the right. Oh, and people who get ganked absolutely do deserve it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15209	Posted - 2015.11.22 10:27:23 - [100] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: My insistence comes from just trying to have an actual discussion You aren't trying to have an actual discussion. You just keep repeating your lie over and over again, and expect us to engage you as though that lie were the truth. It is not. Bumping is not aggression, no matter how many times you say it. There is no "discussion" to be had on that basis, because the entire founding concept is 100% false. And you claim that people are "trolling" when they refuse to engage your lie. Pure projection. The only troll here is you, even the OP gave up on this asinine concept a while ago. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15216	Posted - 2015.11.22 12:57:51 - [101] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Conversation stalled at the OP. There's a hint there. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15217	Posted - 2015.11.23 12:38:17 - [102] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: It does not make a freighter safer You said a while back that you intended it as a nerf to ganking, and that it would make freighters safer. You even said that your whole point is that you want ganking nerfed. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15219	Posted - 2015.11.24 01:45:33 - [103] - Quote Anyone who claims you have to get rid of an unintended interaction merely because it was unintended is a moron. It wasn't intended that anyone ever live in wormholes, either. Pretty sure that's some of the best content in the game too. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15219	Posted - 2015.11.24 01:56:28 - [104] - Quote Oh, and as for "weeks of effort". There is no more wrong argument. EVE is very literally driven on loss of assets, it is the single most important part of this game. Every other game out there has assets you can generate. Very few have loss, certainly none on the level that EVE does. Loss is what makes EVE, EVE. Anyone who whines about "weeks of effort", or any variation thereof, is simply showing that they do not belong in EVE Online. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15222	Posted - 2015.11.24 05:24:34 - [105] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Anyone who claims you have to get rid of an unintended interaction merely because it was unintended is a moron. It wasn't intended that anyone ever live in wormholes, either. Pretty sure that's some of the best content in the game too. I would go even further, the unintended consequences is precisely what the Devs and CCP intended providing things are balanced. Bumping is balanced as there are relatively easy solutions to the problem of bumping through to less than easy (getting an interceptor to burn ahead of you so you can warp in the direction you are being bumped, or ganking the bumping ship). It's almost like this is a sandbox game, and emergent content is not only allowed but encouraged. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15224	Posted - 2015.11.24 06:55:10 - [106] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: The point was that changes have been made to reduce ganking. Those changes were ultimately ineffective due to emergent factors that in some cases actually increased ganking. So you lied earlier, and you do just want ganking nerfed. And you'll say anything to get that, no matter how absurd. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15224	Posted - 2015.11.24 07:22:40 - [107] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Just because emergent factors create a situation does not mean that situation needs to be considered holy and inviolate. Oh, and this sentence is really freaking funny, considering how carebears consider CONCORD and highsec safety in general to be "holy and inviolate". Carebears always project. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15225	Posted - 2015.11.24 07:28:09 - [108] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I'm not throwing things at the wall to see what sticks, I am arguing with people who believe their dogmatic view should be both unassailable and held by all universally. There's that projection again. He just can't stop. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15250	Posted - 2015.11.24 13:59:44 - [109] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: No, but remove crappy emergent game play that totally sux through coding is something that can be done. Ah, so your basic argument now boils down to: "I don't like it so it should go away." It's a bold move Cotton, let's see if it pays off. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15251	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:00:33 - [110] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Hate to break it to you, but I'm not the minority, except on the forums. I don't hate to break it to you, but you speak for no one but yourself, and your opinion means nothing. Quote: Also bear in mind that my goal was never to curb ganking. Forgive me if I hadn't noticed, since you change positions on that pretty much every few posts. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

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